Empowering Men Through Faith

What's the Story
Written By Matt Edmundson

Guest: Jonathan Lewis

Jonathan Lewis is the president of Eastport Financial Group Inc.. He authored two books, Deep Water (2018), and More Than Money (2021). His More than Money podcast speaks to the stewardship of all our assets, from our time and talent to our agency, purpose, and responsibility. He is the dedicated husband to Sara Lewis and father of two beautiful daughters. From his home in Nova Scotia, Canada, Jonathan’s vibrant drive to further his faith, family, community, philanthropy and entrepreneurialism has been constant through his life.

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

Welcome to this weeks episode of "What's the Story," in this episode host Matt Edmundson interviews Jonathan Lewis, President of Eastport Financial Group Incorporated, author of "Deep Water" and "More Than Money," and founder of Fathers for Fathers. Jonathan shares his faith journey, struggles, and the transformative power of Christianity in his life.

Key Takeaways:

  1. The Transformative Power of Faith: Jonathan's faith journey highlights the significant transformation that true convictional Christianity can bring to a person's life. At 34, he experienced a pivotal moment of surrender to Christ, which profoundly impacted his approach to life, business, and relationships. His story emphasizes the importance of trusting in God's plan and letting go of personal idols to experience genuine spiritual growth.

  2. The Importance of Forgiveness: Forgiveness plays a central role in Jonathan's narrative. His decision to forgive his ex-wife and seek her forgiveness, despite the pain and difficulty, led to a profound sense of freedom and healing. This act of forgiveness not only improved his personal well-being but also demonstrated the power of following Christ's commands in bringing about reconciliation and personal peace.

  3. Supporting and Empowering Men: Jonathan's initiative, Fathers for Fathers, addresses the critical issue of male despair and suicide, particularly among those estranged from their children or struggling with personal failures. The organization aims to support men through various means, including mentorship, immersive studies, and practical guidance. Jonathan's call to action for men to rise above victimhood and villainy, embrace their God-given identity, and take actionable steps toward personal and spiritual growth is a powerful message of hope and empowerment.

Connect with the Fathers for fathers facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FathersForFathersGlobal

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  • Jonathan Lewis [WTS]

    Sadaf Beynon: [00:00:00] Hey there, and welcome to What's the Story. We're an inquisitive bunch of hosts from the What's the Story team on a mission to uncover stories about faith and courage from everyday people. In doing that, we get the privilege of chatting with amazing guests and have the opportunity to delve into their faith journey, the hurdles they've overcome, and the life lessons they have learned along the way.

    If podcast, don't forget to subscribe and sign up for our weekly newsletter at our website, whatsthestorypodcast. com. It's your direct line to the latest episodes and detailed show notes, delivered straight into your inbox. And the best part, it's totally free. What's the Story is brought to you by Crowd Church, who fully understand that stepping into a traditional church might not be everyone's cup of joe.

    Crowd Church provides a digital sanctuary, a safe space to explore the Christian faith where you can engage in meaningful conversations, rather than just simply spectating. So whether you're new to the Christian faith or in search of a new church family, visit crowd. church. And if you have any questions at all, just drop them an [00:01:00] email, hello at crowd.

    church. They would love to connect with you. And now, let's meet your host and our special guest for today. 

    Matt Edmundson: Today I am with Jonathan Lewis, who is the president of Eastport Financial Group Incorporated, author of Deep Water and More Than Money, and founder of Fathers for Fathers.

    His More Than Money podcast explores the stewardship of all our assets. He's a dedicated husband and father, lives in Nova Scotia, Canada, which is a beautiful part of the world. He's passionate about his faith, family and community, as well as entrepreneurship. A man after my own heart, ladies and gentlemen.

    He and his wife, Sarah, invest in startups and support charities that model strong Christian values. Uh, Jonathan, great to have you on the show, man. I've been looking forward to this. Sadaf, who I know you've spoken to in the past, I've been bigging you up, so, uh, great to finally connect, how you doing? 

    Jonathan Lewis: Oh, I'm doing so good, man.

    I'm really [00:02:00] delighted to be here. And Matt, I'm looking forward to chatting with you today as well. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. So you're an entrepreneur. You're an author, you're a podcaster. It's like you're my brother from another mother. It's um, all the way over in New Scotland, all the way in New Scotland.

    Yeah, I'm near the original one. Uh, yeah, so yeah, so it's, uh, it's an interesting one. Hey, Christian wise then, um, have you always been a Christian? Did you, was it something you've grown up with or is it something that came later in life? 

    Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, it's funny. I was just chatting with a guy today about this and he asked me My backstory and I said, well, I I was exposed to what I would say is a culturally Christian family 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah 

    Jonathan Lewis: in Canada There's not a lot of convictional Christianity, um, but there's a lot of cultural Christianity and, [00:03:00] um, you know, we're not even a post Christian nation anymore.

    I would say we're more of a pagan nation. And so I grew up, um, where my dad was the first person in his entire family ever that anybody knew of to, to become a Christian. They thought he'd joined a cult, uh, but he never really dug his, his, uh, roots of his faith in deep. Um, You know, when you think about the story of the, the parable of the sower, I would say my dad was the seed that got caught up in the cares of the world.

    And, 

    Matt Edmundson: uh, 

    Jonathan Lewis: but it was enough to expose our family and, um, uh, but I got saved, uh, if you will, um, or had that coming to Jesus aha moment where, um, I was like, there's gotta be more was when I was 34. So it was only 14 years ago in 2010. And, uh, But it was definitely like a, uh, fork in the road and, uh, and I took the road less traveled and, [00:04:00] uh, it's, it's not easy.

    I said to a friend of mine, like, Christianity is not for the faint of heart. It takes guts to live in, uh, Babylon, if you will, um, and, and really, truly convictionally follow Christ and try and do things his way. Yeah. Uh, there's a lot of times when you're making decisions or engaging in a, in a, in a conflict in a way that your flesh would never do.

    And you're just trusting him for the outcome. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's how I found my way. Um. Yeah. You know, didn't really have the deep roots, but at 34, um, had a lot of success in business and was like, you know what, there's just got to be something more than this. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. It's really interesting.

    Today I was listening to, um, a podcast where they were talking about the rise of cultural Christianity and, uh, it's interesting that you've just used this phrase. I've not heard it used loads, but it's been coming up a lot [00:05:00] recently. Yeah. This idea that you would live a Christian lifestyle. and identify with that, but not actually believe that Christ was born of a virgin, that he rose from the dead.

    Um, but that you're trying to fill some kind of void somewhere, which was left by the new atheism model. And so you've got this sort of rise of cultural Christianity, which I find quite odd that people want to sort of live this life of Christianity. They want to do good. They will, you know, and followed the teachings of Christ.

    Yeah. To an extent, obviously not the whole way. Um, and it, it strikes me as a Canada's, I mean, you use this phrase, cultural Christianity, is that something that you see a lot there? Is that something that you're experiencing more and more? 

    Jonathan Lewis: I mean, I travel a lot, Matt. Whether it's in Europe or the US or Canada.

    Um, you know, I, let me put to you this way, in [00:06:00] John six, Jesus feeds the 5,000, right? 

    Mm-Hmm. . 

    Jonathan Lewis: And you jump further down. It's a long chapter. You get to verse 64 or 66 in there, and he's, he's really pivoted on everybody. They're like, oh man, this guy's great. We're going to use him to get rid of Biden or Trudeau or whoever, just choose your country.

    He's going to get rid of the Romans, right? Like we haven't changed. Nothing's changed, right? They had the Romans. We've got our, our leaders of the world today. So right away, human beings in our limited capacity, in our flesh, We see Jesus on our terms, Jesus a la carte, what can Jesus do for us? He fed us physically, there's a physical need, Matt.

    What other physical needs can He meet of ours? Like, we're not, we're not thinking transcendent, even though Augustine said, like, our hearts long to have God fill this hole in us. And so, so, you know, he gets to the point where, you know, he says, no, I'm the bread of life, and whoever eats of me will never, We'll [00:07:00] never ever go hungry.

    And it says, and then a lot of the people that were following his disciples, it says, a lot of them said, this is a hard teaching and they walked away from him. And then he turns to our good buddy, our, our guy, Peter. Right? What a train wreck. And yet he says, Peter, you're still here. Right? And I feel like I'm a Peter because it's like, there's just this response where he's like, well, you have the words of life, where else would we go?

    So I want you to overthrow the Romans too, and takes care of the tax collectors. And I'm just a fisherman. I'm a business guy. Yeah, but there's something way more here to Jesus than just Jesus on my terms, Jesus a la carte, the Judeo Christian cultural centers that we've built, where we want, uh, these, these wonderful moral teachings, but Jesus is like, no, I'm way, way more than that.

    And J. D. Greer, um, He's a pastor that I've gotten to know his ministry and a lot of the, [00:08:00] the leaders under his ministry down in North Carolina. And I love when JD says, look, there's a throne and a cross in every human heart. And either Jesus is on the throne of your heart and you're on the cross or you're on the throne and he's still on the cross.

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: But at the end of the day, it's one or the other. And so. Cultural Christianity is I'm still on the throne, but I want, I want Jesus a la carte, Jesus on my turns, um, but it doesn't work that way, 

    Matt Edmundson: if you're 

    Jonathan Lewis: truly going to be a disciple of Christ. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah, totally agree. It's, um, And that's one of the things I think you, I'm curious actually, before I say that, you've been a Christian 14 years.

    Is this something that you knew from day one? Is this something that you've grown into, this understanding, um, of the Lordship of Christ as the Bible maybe would call it? You know, this. Yeah. Uh, Christ Sits on the Throne. He, he actually does rule and reign. Where was that? Where, where were you on the spectrum, I [00:09:00] suppose, the last 14 years with that?

    Jonathan Lewis: Uh, I, I would say that in 2010, um, you know, we don't have a lot of churches here if they, if we do their apartment buildings or microbrewery pubs or restaurants now. So, um, so I, I literally was in the field. Right outside the house here on my tractor on a Sunday morning planting apple trees. I just had this moment where I'm like, you know, Lord, I don't know if you're there or not.

    Um, but here's what I do know. If you're not, it's really a hopeless situation for all of us. And if you are, could you please reveal yourself to me? And I'm thankful that he did. Um, so for me then it was like, okay, I've had this contrition, this confession of sin, you know, the basic tenets of the gospel. But I don't know him, right?

    Um, so then you go on this journey. This is, this is this journey with Jesus of discipleship where he's holding our hand and he's not gonna let go of our hand. It's us that will pull away. Right? And so he took me on this journey [00:10:00] from 2010 to 2018 where like he, he knows each and every one of us. And one of the most powerful things I think that points to the existence of Christ is how he meets each person in such an intimate way.

    Right? That's, that's amazing. Yeah. And for me, there was two, two idols in my life or two things that I struggle with. One was, can I trust God? Because I've had a lot of abandonment and letdowns in my life. 

    Matt Edmundson: Right. 

    Jonathan Lewis: And the other was, um, do I, do I have any idols in my heart that are above Him? And, and family was an idol to me.

    Right? So, we often think of idols. We don't think of family. As a matter of fact, in our world today, we celebrate People that are, you know, doing a great job with family and that have family and, but it can still be an idol to them. And, um, so he worked away over the next eight years at me on that. And it still is.

    And, um, but I got to a point, um, in August of 2022 regarding our two teenage [00:11:00] daughters, who we've had tremendous difficulties with, um, Uh, and just to give some quick context, uh, when I got saved, my, um, my, uh, wife at the time, uh, decided she didn't want to be married and pursue another, uh, alternative relationship where ultimately I was like, holy smokes, I didn't see this coming.

    And now, um, I've got to, I've got to try and save this marriage and, and the failing that I've got to try and co parent and raise these kids in the wake of that. And by the grace of God, I. I was able to continue to thread that needle all those years with her. But these teenage girls now, right? They're trying to figure out their way in the world and they're like, well, mom's view is this and dad's view is this.

    And I got to a point in August of 2022 where I'm like really desperate. I'm like, Lord, I've honored you. I don't understand why, um, Why I feel like I'm on the losing end here with these girls. And, [00:12:00] and in my quiet time in prayer in August, 2022, he said, do you trust me? And Matt, I would love to be able to say that I had an emphatic response of yes, Lord, but my response was tears 

    Matt Edmundson: and 

    Jonathan Lewis: it was further tears of contrition.

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. So 

    Jonathan Lewis: this is like 12 years into my walk with Christ. Because I knew that the answer was not an emphatic yes. And I knew that, that, that my flesh was still governing this idol of family. And then I was fighting in my flesh instead of trusting him. And so he took me on a journey over the last two years where I can honestly emphatically say with the girls and really with family at large, the answer is yes.

    And I'll tell you this, when you can say you trust him with whatever that idol was, You definitely trust him with everything else. Right. And so that's where he's holding our hand and we're, we have this reflex to want to pull away [00:13:00] when it gets hard, when he's asking us to, to take the next step. And it's that step of you got to choose now, is it Lord of all or Lord at all?

    Right. And, and, um, my, my challenge to anybody listening to this is take the narrow gate. Like, choose lord of all. If you can lay your idol down, you won't be laying anything down. That's the weird thing. It's like, it's the most painful thing to lay down that idol when he asks you to do it. And yet, um, really you're not laying it down.

    You're just giving it to him. And he loves you so much that he's not, he's not gonna, not gonna leave you hanging. 

    Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: And so that's been this journey, if you will, um, around my idol. And so I manage money, lots and lots of money, and I deal with affluence and yet money's never been my, my stumbling block.

    Like whether [00:14:00] it's ascetism or materialism, pride of not having it, pride of having it. Um, I can teach on money all the time. We do journeys of generosity. I've, I've got clients and friends that run 600 million companies and pay themselves 100, 000 a year. A good buddy of mine recently said, I did 500 million in sales last year and I long, long time ago settled on there'd be no jet for Jeff.

    Um, and so, you know, some people, that's not their idol. And then God chooses to trust them 

    Matt Edmundson: with 

    Jonathan Lewis: what for a lot of us is a stumbling block. 

    Yeah. Right. Right. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Right. Um, uh, but it's, it's what makes our savior so amazing because he meets Matt with what Matt needs to have chipped away at Matt's character, Matt's flesh, just like he met Jonathan with, Do you trust me?

    Matt Edmundson: So when, uh, when you felt God say that to you in your quiet time, and obviously, you know, there's that, that moment of realization that actually God's asking this for a reason, uh, and I'm not [00:15:00] quite where I, where I need to be. Yeah. What was your response? What happened practically? You know, how did that 

    Jonathan Lewis: work?

    So, I felt gypped, uh, because you know, the girls were really running in the wrong direction. I was asking him, uh, to stop them, right, uh, help me save these kids, um, and, uh, and I was kind of like an Elijah stoop, like, you know, where I'm like, I'm so tired, I've done everything you asked me to do, and I didn't take on any profits of bail, but I definitely had done, done a lot.

    And, and, uh, I just wanted to lie down and die, you know, and, um, and he just so graciously came and came alongside Sarah and I and, um, just comforted both of us in our pain and our pain was different, right? Um, his husband and wife and, um, that's my, my wife who I've been married to for 10 years, amazing stepmoms, you know, been in the kids lives since they were three and four and poured into them and, and she was having her own pain and suffering around this and, um, [00:16:00] and it's the weirdest thing.

    Um, He then said to me, I need you to write a letter to the girl's mom, and I want you to tell her that you're sorry. I want you to ask for her forgiveness. And of course, my flesh is like, are you kidding me? I don't owe her an apology, right? And for three weeks, Sarah watched me wrestle with this, right? And so this is the next big thing when it comes to Christ is when he says, forgive us our sins.

    We forgive those who trespass against us. We actually go back to the Hebrew translation. Those are actually commands. It's not suggestions. Like, he's telling us this is what has to happen. Um, and, um, for three weeks, man, I wrestled with this. Like, uh, I was just like, I can't believe you're asking me to do this, Lord, you know, and then finally I said to Sarah one day, I'm right.

    I'm going to write this letter and she's like, wow. [00:17:00] Okay. And so I sat at the kitchen table and I wrote this letter, took a picture of it, um, went down to the mailbox. Ironically, I'm like four or five houses down from my ex in laws. So the mailbox is on their road. Right. And I'm, I'm sitting in front of the mailbox and I Post this letter, and I'm sitting there staring at it, I've got my ear pods in, and Sarah calls me on my phone, and she says, what are you doing, and I said, well, if I'm being honest, I'm wondering what the felony charges would be for destroying a Canada Post mailbox and trying to get a letter back.

    Uh, but, but I said, I'm, I'm not going to go there. It's posted. And she said, okay, well, I'm proud of you. And our father is proud of you. Jesus is proud of you. Um, how do you feel? And I said, well, I actually feel like a massive, massive load has been lifted off of me. And she's like, good, come home. And so I did, um, and it didn't stop there.

    Then he said, uh, a couple of months later, leading up to Christmas, I want you to write her a letter and tell her that you [00:18:00] forgive her. And that you hope that she has the best Christmas ever and really mean it. And, and that letter was way easier to write and I did, and I actually meant it. And I can honestly say that, um, you know, last summer he said, Hey, do you know you're the only Bible she's ever going to read?

    If you don't, if you don't pray for her, who's going to pray for her? 

    Yeah. I want you 

    Jonathan Lewis: to intercede for her. And I can genuinely tell you that, um, that is a person who, um. Success. If I were to define success for the girl's mom, is that we would be standing shoulder to shoulder in eternity. And that's when you know that you are being transformed by a transcendent, eternal, um, Savior.

    Because And anybody listening to me that's gone through divorce, which is six and ten of your audience, by the way, um, um, I know that this is resonating because it's like, [00:19:00] um, forgiveness is never the, the guy that you cut you off in traffic. You forget all about that, even if you had road rage. Forgiveness is always going to ultimately be difficult, and it's going to be somebody that was close to you, that hurt you, whether it was a business colleague, a sibling, a parent, um, it's, it's never going to be somebody that's distant from you.

    You're going to, this is a person you're going to be emotionally engaged with, and yet Jesus says, forgive them. So, um, but I think that, um, the next hallmark is that that genuine state of letting go. It doesn't mean that this person doesn't make you angry again or, or do something to, to tick you off, right?

    But it means that you're in a place where you're no longer held, uh, captive. You're no, you're no longer drinking poison and waiting for that other person to die. As we've all heard, um, and with that freedom, then comes the ability for God to say, okay, now I can actually use you, [00:20:00] right? Um, I can, I can use you for my kingdom.

    I can, I can take you deeper into your understanding and knowledge of me, but otherwise you're, you're stuck. And that cultural Christianity, Christianity vortex of, I want Jesus, but I'm not prepared to really go the distance with Jesus and trust him. And um, I mean, if we had more time in this podcast, I could tell you what happened, um, in response to that, um, that is just amazing.

    And not just in one area of my life, but in many areas of my life, including business. And so, um, yeah, I mean, Matt, if there's people listening. Um, um, if you're struggling with forgiveness, do whatever you gotta do to get around believers that are mature, that have stories, that have forgiven, read Corrie Ten Boom, I mean, there's a great book to start with, The Hiding Place, right?

    Um, but, but, you know, I, like, I think [00:21:00] about, um, Unbroken. Right. Um, the story of, um, shoot, what's his name? Uh, uh, the, he was the Olympic track star who ended up in a Japanese, uh, war camp. And what he went through was horrendous and he ended up getting saved. Louis, Louis Giglio, uh, not Louis Giglio, uh, uh, the company he went.

    Um, just look up Unbroken, amazing book, amazing story, but he ends up going back to Japan after the war and forgiving all of his captors and, um, just there's this constant recurring theme of believers that are set free, um, by setting others free in their heart. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's such a powerful thing to say.

    If you are listening and you want to know more, there is some great teaching actually on the Crowd website about it. Some amazing stories, Mick and Lynne Connolly, they're a local couple here in Liverpool, their son was murdered. A case of mistaken identity. Their story about [00:22:00] forgiveness, and you're right, you listen to some of these people and you just go, well I've got nowhere to go.

    Yeah, 

    Jonathan Lewis: it almost feels hopeless, like, okay, well, I don't know how they did that, but I could, I just could never do that. I want to, but I can't. And I'm going to argue, I'm going to really push back here hard. You can't because of your pride and because you want to hold on to your pain. And the only way you can truly be free is if you're willing to let go of that pain.

    Yeah, 

    Matt Edmundson: yeah. And that's a tough one to say. It is, but I think some of these things need to be said sometimes, you know, and, um, I, I think you're right. I think there are, there are reasons why we don't forgive, but they're all on us. Um, if it's a command of Christ, then it's possible. It's not like Christ will say, well, you need to forgive her, by the way, you're not going to find a way to do it.

    Um, but this is where I think cultural Christianity falls down because in Christ is where you find the strength, right, to do these things. [00:23:00] And 

    Jonathan Lewis: he says, do you trust me, right? So when you say, I'm not going to forgive, what you're saying is, I don't trust. That God ultimately is just and that, uh, in the end all will be made right.

    So, cause we've been offended. And so we want justice. We want that person to come to account for whatever they've done. Thing is, is God's the judge. And if he's already forgiven them, what right do we have to withhold what he's already given them freely and given us freely? Like read Romans slowly, Romans 5, right?

    Um, there's, there's gotta be a humbling of our own hearts to realize we don't have the right authority. Um, and that's tough because it's not to say that you're hurt and your pain isn't real. It's that what you're saying is, is I trust God for the justice on His timing and I give Him my hurt and my pain.

    [00:24:00] Um, and, um, my prayer is that more and more people, especially within the church that profess the name of Christ would really truly make this leap. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. So, I'm intrigued to know, Jonathan, you know, you're talking about your daughters. You're also involved in something called Fathers for Fathers.

    Was there a connection there? Yeah. What is Fathers for Fathers and how did that come about? 

    Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, so, um, my dad, uh, just after my 15th birthday, he drowned, him and I were scuba diving here in Nova Scotia and, um, and I lost him. I got him to the beach, uh, but I was not able to, to save him and that kickstarted a very painful, uh, uh, period of my life, a very formative year for a young man where I didn't have a father.

    I was fatherless. Um, and, um, what ensued in the, the years after that, my mom, uh, remarried very quickly. My stepdad and I obviously didn't get along. I was very [00:25:00] angry. I was suffering from trauma and PTSD around my dad drowning, blame myself, a lot of guilt, uh, with that, um, couldn't accept that it was my fault.

    So then chose to blame God and walk away from him. And so when you, um, fast forward, um, you go through a divorce. Your spouse, you know, says, hey, uh, this isn't for me, you know, there's further abandonment. And then when you start having difficulties with your teenage daughters, Um, there's this constant theme of, of hurt and brokenness and I started looking at the stats on divorce and, um, just where things are going and the impact on men.

    And I thought about how broken I was and how broke I got. And I thought we're doing a good job in the church with programs and behavioral modification and a lot of left brain copy, rinse and repeat. We're not doing a good job of this, like really allowing people [00:26:00] to, to be vulnerable and honest and divorce rates are, um, I don't know what they are in the UK, but in, in North America, they're 58%.

    Uh, the, the numbers are no different in the church, which in and of itself should be alarming because it tells us that there doesn't seem to be much difference between the church and the world and there should be. And, um, but I, I started really digging into the stats and became very alarmed at the rate at which men.

    In the wake of divorce, if they're not actively engaged in their kids lives, if they don't stay in there, um, how badly they spiral. And this is going to be an alarming stat, but in Canada, North America, I'll use Canada, Canada, only 13 percent of men get shared custody. So I knew God had, uh, moved in my life and that they're my kids.

    I had a dad who had shared custody and, um, and I was able to coach their baseball team, their volleyball team, and stay very actively engaged in our life. And, [00:27:00] um, but not a lot of dads have that success. And, um, and what happens is if they don't, they end up being that every other weekend dad. We, uh, we start painting these guys as deadbeat dads and, uh, simply put the suicide rates.

    Amongst men who end up alienated from their kids, which is 15 out of, you know, the, the 58 of divorces, it's too high a number. Um, they ended up killing themselves. One in three of them killed themselves. So, so I thought, okay, Lord, these are men that you died for, that you went to the cross for. I know your view on the family unit.

    I know Ephesians 5, 25 says, Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church, and be prepared to present her. So I know that, that the order of things is God, our wives, our kids, and so forth. But, um, what do we do when six out of 10 dads are trying to do that in the wake of a divorce and the whole [00:28:00] thing's been discombobulated and they feel hopeless.

    And, uh, but then I thought about, uh, men who've outlived their own children, guys that lost their dad when they're young, guys that never knew their dad because. They didn't know their dad for whatever reason. Um, and I just started to realize that men are having a very difficult time figuring out what godly masculinity looks like.

    Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: And, um, I didn't feel equipped to, to, uh, throw my hat in the ring. I can tell you that right now, but look, notwithstanding that, the Lord really put it on my heart, um, to start fathers for fathers. And he gave me a pretty clear vision of what it should be and what it should look like. And I'm following it as obediently as I can.

    But In short, it was, you need to be a flag bearer for men. I want you to get these broken men that, that the world's really writing off as deadbeat dads or whatever they are, whether they're into porn or substance abuse, but there's way too many men falling prey to this [00:29:00] victimhood mindset or they're villains.

    And God's called men to be heroes, not villains or victims. And so, um, uh, basically, um, I look at us like almost like a pseudo church where our job is to be a stretcher bearer or an ambulance for the church. Get the broken men, figure out where they're wounded, as you know, John Eldredge says, get them stable and get them to where they can get real fellowship and discipleship with, with, um, with the church.

    Um, and so we're doing all kinds of cool stuff. Men's hikes, Uh, we're working on a 12 week immersive study, like an alpha program for men by men that's built on a military phase training structure that'll appeal to men with lots of, uh, football analogies and soccer analogies and baseball analogies and military analogies, like stuff that men will resonate with.

    Um, we're giving them two options, not five, cause we all know that. You know, I was recently with a bunch of guys that I've retreated and they said, [00:30:00] okay, we're cleaning up ourselves. There's like a blue cleaning agent and a pink cleaning agent and orange. By the time they got to the fourth cleaning agent, you could tell every guy in the room had glazed over and was confused.

    Right? So the immersive study, it's like, you got two options. Either Jesus on the throne or you on the throne, what's it going to be, right? Um, so, um, so yeah, we're just basically trying to go after the broken men and kind of like in the model of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, we're not going to fix broken family courts and we're not going to fix, um, the porn industry or stop it.

    But what we can do. is we can go after the victims, and the victims are men and their families. Yeah. So, we just feel called to try and stabilize the men, get them off this villain victim mindset, and back into a, hey, like, I am called by God for a purpose in society, and it's not too late. 

    Matt Edmundson: That's fantastic.

    I love the fact you're doing that. And I, I, I, I'm stoked, man, because I, [00:31:00] like you, I, I hear a lot about male suicide, because, you know, more men commit suicide, I think 75 percent male, 25 percent female, something like that is the stat, isn't it? 

    Yeah. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And men, We've gone to great lengths, and I think quite rightly so, to get men to talk, you know, to encourage men to talk, to try and end the sort of the size of male suicide.

    And I think we've done an okay job there in some respects. Obviously, there's always room for improvement, but it turns out when you look at the data, it's not that men aren't talking. It's just that there aren't, no one's really listening or the solutions aren't there to help them. And so when you talk about how one in three are committing suicide because they don't have access to kids, this is, that's not a talking problem, that's a, this is a problem.

    Whether I talk about it or whether or not, I've still got the problem that I'm estranged from my kids. Exactly. Exactly. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Exactly. And the, and the question is, well, what did you [00:32:00] do and what can you do to fix about it? Well, come on, man. You don't think this guy is sat night after night after night, drink after drink after drink, asking, what can I do?

    What we need to do is start asking the right questions. And, and guys are doers. Like, like, typically men need a challenge. They need to provide, protect, pursue, and fight for something. And so we got to take that energy and we got to channel it somewhere because a despondent man is a destructive man, whether he's destroying himself or others around him.

    Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Um, uh, but I, a hopeful man, um, is a force of nature. And so, um, yeah, like I just, I just keep continually being alarmed, uh, as I talk to guys. Um, and the, the common theme is hope they've got no hope. I got no hope. [00:33:00] Uh, you don't understand, right? You don't understand. I had a guy say to me, you don't understand.

    I'm like, try me because I've probably, I've probably gone through, which is probably why God's calling me to his ministry. Um, and sure enough, he's like, well. This is what's happened to my business, and this is what I'm up against, and like, I don't know how I'm going to, um Keep the banks happy, you know, and I'm like, all right, let's, let's work our way through this, man.

    Like one piece at a time. Let's start peeling back the onion. So talking is good, but once we're done talking, this guy needs an action plan. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Right. He needs something that he can start doing, um, that gives him, that he has an element of control over. That is not dependent on, um, outside elements that he doesn't have control over.

    And, um, and at the end of the day, we're not trying to say, Hey, Tony Robbins, you can do this. What we're trying to say is you can't do this. So one of the things you have to do is surrender. Or you are going to [00:34:00] perish 

    in 

    Jonathan Lewis: that surrender. There are things you can do to, to pursue the Lord. There's things you can do to cast your cares on him.

    And there's things you can do to just start actively taking care of yourself. Cause most guys are left brained, right? Are you exercising? Stop drinking the Coke zero, put down the caffeine, stop with cigarette. Why are you drinking that alcohol? Right. Like, like just be deliberate about, um, where you're putting your time and your energy.

    Are you, are you starting your day with the Lord? Um, or are you starting at sleep deprived because you're up until two in the morning watching whatever it is you're watching. Right. So, you know, we just want to be flag bearers for men and, you know, in a military context, flag bearers were never armed.

    Right. They, they ran next to the general unarmed and yet they were the prize target on the field. Like if you can take down the flag bearer, you stop the, the entire, um, Army of men for marching. And so it just became really evident to me that men need a flag bearer again. And, [00:35:00] um, the church needs to be that flag bearer.

    But I think sometimes we just need somebody with a stretcher to like triage these guys and get them to the church. And, you know, it's, it is literally the embodiment of being a fisher of men. Let's go and get these guys. Like, like I literally had a vision, Matt, that we would advertise on Pornhub. Right?

    Fathers for Fathers, right? Like, um, like it's like, where are we going to get these guys? Right? Like we could put signage up at all the liquor stores, right? Um, let's go where the broken men are hanging out, you know, and, and let's, um, let's not shame them for being broken. Let's challenge them to step away from what they know.

    is never ever going to fill the void. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: No matter how hard they try. 

    Matt Edmundson: That's so powerful. Let's not shame them for being broken, which I think is very cultural actually at the moment, that the, you know, to shame men, uh, [00:36:00] in so many ways. And I, and, and actually let's not shame them. Let's call them. Let's you know.

    Yeah, let's, let's, let's call the men to, um, I like the phrase you use biblical masculinity because again, I, I mean, I, I, you know, I have two boys and a, and a girl. I have three kids. Jonathan Wright. Yeah. My two boys, 22 and 20, and I. I look at what they're faced with in terms of outside of the church, especially how at the moment it's definitely not cool to be a man in so many ways, you know, and this is not a criticism.

    This is just an observation of society. 

    Jonathan Lewis: It's just where we are in human history. It is. And it's very different 

    Matt Edmundson: to what I grew up in and to the point where you almost have to feel like you have to apologize sometimes for being a man. And I actually, I think it's the other way around. I agree. I agree. I think.

    What this world needs more than anything right now are biblical men, biblical fathers, especially, um, even if you're not fathering, you know, I'm, I'm [00:37:00] a big fan of, of this idea of fathering. I said it to my son, 22, spent 10 days with him in the States a couple weeks ago, which was just beautiful, and I'm like, I know you're 22, But you need to think about what it looks like to spiritually father other men, um, you know, teenagers who will look up to you and think, they're not going to look to me, they're going to think, oh, you're an old guy, you don't know nothing, but they're going to look to you and think, oh, you're cool.

    And I think when men step up into that call of fatherhood, not only to their own kids, but to a herding world, I think the world changes in so many beautiful ways. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Yeah, I mean, if you look at the very first fatherhood story in the Bible, right, it's God and Adam, right? And just, just as a side note, God had two sons and one went wayward.

    So guys, stop beating yourself up, right? The greater universe is sat in 500. And thank God for the other son, Christ, right? But my point is, is [00:38:00] There's something very special around a father son relationship and our Heavenly Father and how He loves men. And He has a purpose for men and it's not something to be ashamed of or to back away from.

    As a matter of fact, it's a burden, it's stewardship. He's saying, I want you to be willing, Ephesians 5, 25, love your wives like Christ loved the church. Well, Christ died for the church. Yep. What he's saying is love your wives, be so submitted to your wives that you would die for her. And she's the number one most important relationship in your life, right?

    Not like, if you, if you're not doing that, nothing else matters, right? So like, that's how I interpret it. And then I was talking to a buddy of mine this winter, and I said, here's the thing, like, we need to die to our flesh, like, like not physically die, but die to our flesh for our wives. So when a man starts to do that, it's like, well, what does that look like?

    Well, it's, [00:39:00] it's, it's the, like this, uh, rite of passage where we go through this journey of sanctification, where we allow God to change us into the kind of men that he actually is proud of and can use to transform the world. And so, you know, Um, I'll say this to the guys that are listening that don't have a good rap sheet, because I don't have a good rap sheet, right?

    I've been divorced and I got two teenage daughters that are like, you suck. Okay, right. Here's the thing though. What I am is a guy who's sold out for Christ and willing to be coached and willing to continue to say, I don't want to be a villain, and I don't want to be a victim, so Lord, help me to be a hero.

    And what does that look like? So Satan will say, well this is who you are, right, based on what you've done or not done or how you feel. But what God says is, no, this is who you are, and I tell you what your identity is. You know, Romans 8, [00:40:00] Galatians 3. 26, Ephesians, Colossians. So, We need to embrace that identity.

    Like the Apostle Paul said, uh, and was it 2 Corinthians 10, 4, take your thoughts captive. Like men, men are built to take our thoughts captive. So why are we not doing that? Um, and I think it's really important that, that we say, look, I'm not my CV. Because the fact is, is, like, look at David. What a terrible CV.

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah, 

    Jonathan Lewis: yeah. And yet God said, here's a man after my own heart. Well, why was the man after his own heart? Read Psalm 51. That's why. Right, he said, Against you and you alone have I sinned, restoring to me the joy of my salvation. My bones are like dust. This is a guy who understood that his rap sheet didn't matter and that he had no purpose or value apart from God.

    Right? And so, um, like you got, let's say 50 percent of the people listening to this are women and 50 percent are men. And of the 50 percent of their [00:41:00] men, 10 percent are perfect and 90 percent suck. So I'm going to talk to the 90 percent that suck, because actually the 10 percent suck also, they just don't know it.

    Matt Edmundson: That's 

    Jonathan Lewis: their problem, actually, is that they don't know it. But the 9 and 10 guys that are listening, um, God doesn't care about your broken rap sheet. Like what he cares is, are you going to own it? 

    Yeah, 

    Jonathan Lewis: right. So David said against you and you alone have I sinned. David owned his sin. He owned the consequences of it and he knew he was going to have to live with it.

    He 

    Jonathan Lewis: didn't blame God for his sin. He didn't blame God for the fact that his house was never free from the sword 

    as 

    Jonathan Lewis: Nathan said or that like Absalom rebelled. He knew that this was a product of his choices. But he knew God was the only way forward despite his flaws. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: And you know, like when, uh, when David wept over Absalom, I think, uh, any father [00:42:00] or mother who's had a child go wayward or astray will understand why David, uh, wept over Absalom.

    And he wept over Absalom because he knew that he had failed. And it was his responsibility. It was his sin that had created the environment by which Absalom could, um, pursue, um, his rebellious agenda. 

    And, 

    Jonathan Lewis: and so there was an ownership. There was a, there was a, a genuine, I am as a father. Responsible for my son hanging from a tree and being decapitated today.

    And so, but what did he do? He wept, he rose and he carried on. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Right. And I think what we do today is we just stay there and we weep and we, we allow Satan to just absolutely obliterate us in the dust. We need to be, the men listening need to be like David, King David, and say, no, I'm going to get up.

    Yeah. I'm gonna accept [00:43:00] it and I'm gonna continue to move forward and serve the Lord and, and finish well. 

    Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Right. Um, and, uh, that would be my, my call to action is stop looking at your rap sheet. Stop listening to what the world says about you. Stop listening to what Satan says about you, and start listening to what God says.

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah, 

    Jonathan Lewis: that's so powerful. And what he says. is you are bought and paid for, that you are special, that, that he, he literally, Christ hung on that cross and thought about you. And God looked at Christ and saw Christ's blood shedding for you, where you are set free of the consequences eternally. for that sin.

    So why would you ever pick that up again? Like, why would you in your pride say, no, I'm like, I hear this all the time from guys, well, I'm not good enough. Dude, you're saying that God doesn't know what he's doing when he did this for you and that you're not good enough, but every other guy he bled for is [00:44:00] good enough.

    No, you are good enough. That's why he did it. There's nothing more amazing than knowing that, uh, Matt, Jonathan, Brian, Fred, and George, whoever's listening, you are being pursued by the creator of the universe and you were being pursued before you were ever born. And I would even argue, and I'm not a five point Calvinist, but I would even argue, he knew you were going to mess this 

    Matt Edmundson: up.

    Jonathan Lewis: Right? What he wants to know is, are you going to run back to him, 

    your 

    Jonathan Lewis: father and cry, Abba, Abba. Right? Right. 

    Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: And he loves contrition, like when he sees a man like David saying, I sinned against you, and really own it, man, I'm telling you, our father, he like, he'll storm right into the room and like take on the giants.

    Yeah, 

    Matt Edmundson: I wonder actually, listening to you talk about bringing it back to the beginning, I wonder when you wrote that letter [00:45:00] to your ex wife asking for forgiveness, whether actually that was part of you owning it? 

    Jonathan Lewis: Oh, for sure. I've even shared this with other guys. I think of every relationship we have as a triangle, and God is at the top of the triangle, and then there's Jonathan, and then whoever that other person is.

    And the question invariably is, are we trusting that person to God, or are we trying to You know, hold on to this relationship and whatever tensions or bitterness or whatever's there. But at the end of the day, we need to belay them to God and trust that God is ultimately contending with them the same way He's contending with us.

    And it's not on us to fix them. It's on Him to. We need to just be open and honest with Him only. And so, yeah, for me, that was Him bringing me into my Psalm 51 moment, right? Yeah. And He had. Brought me there for the 12 years prior, but it was like he knew, okay, this is the [00:46:00] moment, this is the moment where you're either going to rise up like David and carry on with me a hundred percent, or you're going to continue to hold on to this.

    And we can do this for as long as you want, Jonathan, because I love you and I'm your father, but man, oh, man, are you ever missing out, right? And I'll tell you, man, I am so eternally thankful that I wrote those letters. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah, super powerful, super powerful. Jonathan, listen, I'm aware of time, and I hate to say it, because I feel like, There is so much to this conversation.

    I'd like to dig into some more, you know, I, I think we've barely begun to touch the surface on issues like pornography. Um, I think that would be a really fascinating conversation. It sounds like you can make great insight into that. Um, carry on the conversation about biblical masculinity. Um, so I wonder whether we schedule another date [00:47:00] and continue the conversation.

    Jonathan Lewis: I'd love to do that. And, um, I like, like, if, if you want to talk about pornography, my buddy, Josh Broome, he was the number one porn star in LA for nine years. 

    Matt Edmundson: Wow. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Uh, Radically Born Again. He's out to destroy the porn industry now. He's an ordained minister. Just wrote an amazing book. Um, so we could get Josh on and, um, yeah, I mean, dude, we could do this all day long.

    I mean, this is what I'm doing. I'm going after the men and we've got to go into the darkest recesses of where they're hanging out and get them. Um, you know, um, I'm doing the same thing with divorces. I'm on the board for Teen Challenge Canada, David Wilkerson. So substance abuse. I mean, let's be honest.

    You can almost pick the guy's thing. Some are workaholics. That's what I was. Um, you know, some love to chase women. Some love to chase adventure and adrenaline rushes. But, like, it's not hard to see what they're doing to medicate their pain or to fill the void. [00:48:00] And, um, so, you know, like, that's, that's what we're going after with Fathers to Fathers.

    Love to come back on anytime, Matt. Um, and, uh, yeah, like, um, I, I really think that, that we are doing the world a favor. We're doing the women, our children a favor. If we can get these broken men back into the ranks of, uh, healed and whole men who, um, you know, um, can honestly say, I am no longer that man. And I am a new creation.

    And we don't know who those men are going to be, but, but they're out there and we owe it to our Lord and Savior to go get them. 

    Matt Edmundson: Absolutely. Listen, Jonathan, if people want to connect with you, if they want to find out more about Fathers for Fathers, um, what's the best way to do that, brother? 

    Jonathan Lewis: Uh, hit our website, fathersforfathers.

    org, um, you can check us out on Facebook, [00:49:00] uh, uh, Instagram, uh, our handles are all very simple, like fathersforfathers, um, you can hit us up on Twitter, uh, if you message us, I will message you back, like, um, you know, we've grown quite a bit. So a good friend of mine, Amelia Bishop, my wife's best friend, she's like basically being a concierge.

    We're trying to get 300 men volunteer for our 1 800 number. We have a 1 800 number that is live. Uh, I don't think it's in Europe, but it's anywhere in North America and guys are calling in all the time. We're trying to get our Gideons 300 guys to man the phones. Um, I've almost got a guy every other day signing up to man the phone.

    So when you call, you are getting a David. Who has, has bled and, and, um, you know, done battle and that guy will pray with you. Um, so yeah, man, check us out. Um, you know, we're, we're, um, we're full steam ahead going after the guys. 

    Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Fantastic. We will, of course, link [00:50:00] to all of that information in the show notes as well.

    But Jonathan, loved the conversation, brother. Love what you're doing. I, I, I love. What God is doing in your life, man. I love the story and I, I can see God in it and I can sense God in it. And, um, I, I, I am thoroughly grateful, uh, for meeting you today. So thank you for coming on and thank you for sharing your heart.

    Jonathan Lewis: You got it, Matt. It's my pleasure, man. And, uh, we got to get you over here. No, no joke, we're doing men's hikes in the Cape Breton Highlands, um, of Nova Scotia. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 

    Jonathan Lewis: Um, I've got a guy flying from the UK actually joining us. I got a guy coming from Mexico, so if anybody wants to join one of our men's hikes, we'll take them and, uh, test your mettle and I got, I got a, I got a couple of Navy SEALs and some Army Rangers coming up in September.

    So that, uh, our next men's hike is September 19th in, uh, for the French, Nouvelle Ecosse. For the [00:51:00] Canadians, Nova Scotia, and for my, uh, my friends across the pond, New Scotland. 

    Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Well, I look forward to that. All 

    Jonathan Lewis: right. Bless you, buddy. 

    Matt Edmundson: Yeah. You too, man. You too. Well, Jonathan, thank you. That was great.

     Loved hearing your heart, brother. Thanks for coming on and sharing. It was, um, it was really good. Thank you. God bless, buddy. All right. Have a good day.

    Sadaf Beynon: And just like that, we've reached the end of another fascinating conversation. Remember to check out Crowd Online Church at www. crowd. church. Don't forget to subscribe to What's the Story on your favourite podcast app. We've got a treasure trove of inspiring stories coming your way and we'd hate for you to miss any of them.

    What's the Story is a production of Crowd Online Church. Our fantastic team, including Anna Kettle, Matt Edmundson, Tanya Hutzilak, and myself, Sadaf Beynon, work behind the scenes to bring these stories to [00:52:00] life. Our theme song is a creative work of Josh Edmundson. for listening. If you're interested in the transcript or show notes, head over to our website, whatsthistorypodcast.

    com. And while you're there, sign up for our free newsletter to get all the goodness delivered straight to your inbox. That's all from us this week. Thank you so much for tuning in and we'll catch you in the next episode. Bye for now.

 

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