Characteristics of a Growing Church - What church should really look like
Here’s a summary of this week’s sermon:
Our modern day cultural mindset places self at the center whereas the Church provides connection to something beyond ourselves.
The early church was made up of people who had encountered Jesus and whose lives had been forever changed.
They maintained a strong sense of community, being devoted to the Apostles' teaching, fellowship, breaking bread, and prayer.
They crossed social and ethnic boundaries by recognizing their responsibilities to one another, showing generosity and hospitality to marginalised people.
They prioritised growing in their knowledge of God's truth and love for one another.
💬 CONVERSATION STREET --
Matt + Dave discuss:
The scripture portion for today’s talk from Acts 2 seems so simple when one reads it. Have we overcomplicated church today?
If Acts 2 were written today, the verses probably would have read “they were devoted to their own teaching and their own truth”. Why do you think we have become so individualistic today?
How does today’s passage teach us humility and why has it never been popular to be a Christian?
How do these scriptures from Acts 2 remind us of what’s going on in Asbury University in the present day?
How has the modern day church become consumeristic?
What are some ways to put today’s passage into practice in our daily lives?
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Matt: Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders, uh, and signs performed by the apostles. They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to Prayer.
All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
And the Lord added to their, added to their number daily those who were being saved.
Tony: Firstly, I want us to see that the church was made up of changed people. People whose lives have been transformed. Through an encounter with Jesus, they weren't perfect. In fact, the Bible makes it abundantly clear that these early believers had their problems and their issues, but they were people who had been changed.
I think it's really helpful to think about what we mean even when we use the word church. In the Bible the word church never ever refers to a building. It always refers to a gathering of people. The word that's used is the Ecclesia, the assembly, the gathering of people. You know, a building is simply the place in which a church meets, but the church is never ever the building.
It's always the people. And so when we are thinking about church, we are always thinking primarily about the people, never the building. And those people are our people who have been changed. They're people who have encountered jesus and have their lives transformed. And I think that's so important because otherwise we look at a passage like this and we see the way in which the early believers live, and we can think, uh, how do we go about living that way?
But the key thing is we'll never live that way unless we've encountered what they've encountered and they had encountered Jesus. You know, as a young man, the, what interesting to me. I, I studied political philosophy and you know, in one sense, in an ideal world, there were some sense.
The idea of, uh, people who had less, getting more the idea of those who are having more, being able to give, uh, what they had to others. But, you know, the fact is it doesn't work. It's impractical. Because it doesn't deal with the issue of selfishness, of human sin, of greed, and what we see in the Book of Acts is far better than
We see a people who live in community sharing what they have, being generous to one another, not living selfishly, but living differently, living life, aware of their responsibility to others. But you know, that only happened because they encountered Jesus. Ultimately the truth is that only changed people, changed people, and we see that the early church had been transformed by an encounter with jesus.
The early church was focused around the person of Jesus, you know, in, uh, previous to the passage we are looking at today in verse 40, there we see with many word words, he warned them and he pleaded with them, save yourselves from this corrupt generation. That's Peter pleading with the Crowd there on the day of Pentecost.
And verse 41 says, those who accepted his message were baptized and about 3000 were added to their number that day. You know, to understand the passage that we are looking at, verse 41, understanding the way they live life, we have to go back to that same experience they had, which was to be convicted of their sin, to place their trust in Jesus, and to be transformed by that.
And so we understand that this kind of lifestyle doesn't come simply by joining a church. It doesn't come simply by being nice. It doesn't come simply by belonging to a group or even a church. It comes through believing in Jesus. It says there in that passage, about 3000 souls were added. That's what makes up the church.
They experienced this phenomenal growth, and out of that came the phenomenal community that we see here from verse 41 onwards. But it starts with encountering a phenomenal savior. The early church was made up of people whose lives had been forever transformed by meeting Jesus.
Secondly, we see that the church was a community to belong to and not simply a meeting to attend. And that's really, really important because sometimes when we think about church or even going to church, we think about simply, uh, going along to a meeting.
We, we often think about something that feels like a very passive experience, but in the New testament, believing in Jesus not only connected people to God, the Father, through his son Jesus, but because of the work of the Holy Spirit, transforming lives and shaping individuals, it brought people together into a community.
It wasn't possible to simply believe in Jesus. In isolation, believing in Jesus brought people into a family and the community of church. If we look at this passage here in Acts chapter two, we see that time and time again, we see the words together. And that's so important because here in our culture, very often we are very individualistic.
We talk about our personal faith and it, and in one sense, faith is always personal, but it always has implications for how we live our lives. And that means that it brings us to a commitment to God's people. You know, every follower of Jesus. Really needs to be part of a local church, a group of people who share Jesus together, who share their lives together, who go through the experiences, both good and bad, the ups and downs, the difficulties and the triumphs of life.
You know, church is a team sport. It's not something that we are designed to do on our own. And whoever you are watching this today, I want to encourage you find a, uh, community of believers who believe in the truth of God's word and who, uh, whose lives are being changed day to day by the Holy Spirit and be a part of it.
That sense of togetherness was key. We read that they held things in common. People didn't see just their own possessions and goods simply as their own, but they saw their responsibilities towards others. Those who had gave and helped to meet the needs of those who didn't have. That's a radical version of church.
It wasn't about, uh, what, what's in this for me? No. The early church understood what it was to be together. We see this word, fellowship and fellowship's more than just friendship. It's adjoining of hearts. It goes beyond what is on the surface to something deeper.
Being part of a church isn't just being, uh, coming to a meeting and reading the Bible, maybe singing and going, no. It's about being committed to relationships with others, following Jesus together. As we find relationship with Jesus, we also find relationship with one another. And we see hearing acts, a strong sense of community. They were in each other's homes. They spent time together. They ate together, they prayed together. They experienced difficulty loss, persecution, even they experienced it together.
Well, you know, the radical thing about a true church is that there is a sense of community that is deep. There is a sense of togetherness, but it's never insular. The communities that made up the New Testament churches, We're not insular, but outward, and that's really, really at the heart of the New Testament Church.
We see this group of people living life together, but not just obsessed with one another, but socially impacting the world around them. The early church was known for the way in which it helped them marginalize the poor, the way in which it brought people together, young and old, rich and poor, slave and free Jew and Gentile.
Those distinctions and barriers, which utterly marked out the ancient world. The church was known as the place where people crossed barriers. It scandalized a world around them that in the early church, literally a slave may lead a church that a rich and influential person was part of. God breaking boundaries.
See, real fellowship takes us across boundaries. We see as the early church grows and as we look, we'll look and see in the Book of Acts as it expands. One of the features of the early church was that it crossed social and ethnic boundaries. You see, real fellowship doesn't mean sharing a culture in common.
It means that because we share a savior in common, what does that look like in 21st Century Britain to share life together? Well, it may not mean that we sell our homes, but it does mean we recognize our responsibilities toward one another. It means that we are generous in helping to meet the needs of others.
It means that my home is not my castle. My home is a place where I want to invite others into. It. It means that I see that I only find the true me. I only find really meaning not just in myself, but in my relationships with others as I grow together as part of a community of faith. In our church in London, we say that to be a part of our church, you have to be committed to growing in your love for God, your love, our love for one another in the local church, and the love for the community around us.
That's what real fellowship looks like. It means that I want to be. Closer to God. I want to grow in my relationships and friendships. I share my heart. I share my good side of my bad side. I share my struggles and fears, my strengths and weaknesses with others. I am known and I know others. That's what the New Testament Church did. It brought people together, not just for a meeting, but into a community of faith where they grew and thrived together.
And then lastly, The early church was really clear about its priorities. Verse 42 there says, and they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship and to the breaking of bread and to Prayer. Notice the words there.
They were devoted. Devoted. That word is so important because it carries with it a sense of exclusivity. There's a cost to being devoted to something or someone isn't there. Now I've been married, uh, close to 25 years. It'll be 25 years this summer. And I can actually tell you I am devoted to my wife for good and bad and all our ups and downs.
My wife is somebody that I am devoted to, and that devotion has a cost. You know, when I got married, I made my wife a promise forsaking all others. In other words, being devoted to her meant exclusivity. Being devoted to her means there's a sense in which I'm dead to all other women.
It would be very strange if I said, I'm devoted to my wife, but I'm also devoted to my second wife and I'm also devoted to this other one. No, it wouldn't make sense, would it? We just. We, we just wouldn't, uh, think that's reasonable. Devotion to one, excludes devotion to others, and there was a sense in which the early church was devoted to these things, to teaching, to understanding, to growing in their knowledge of God, to their relationships with their brothers and sisters in church.
Not to the total exclusion of all others, but it was the primary place of relationships. They prioritize being together. It talks about prioritizing the breaking of bread, sharing meals together, sharing the presence of God, remembering what Christ had done. They prioritized Prayer, you know, one of the struggles.
I think that as we think about how do we live out these values in our time and place, In our culture, in our cities, how do we live like this early church live? We have to realize that living that way requires some limitations on us.
It means that being committed to a local church, to a group of, uh, of fellow believers means that actually there have to be a priority being, uh, around being committed to relationships and relationships that last, if we are devoted to something, we see it through good times and bad.
You know, this season's been a pretty tough season to be a liverpool fan. You know, we've gotten from the highs of the last few years to some pretty poor performances. But you know, if you really love something, you stick with it through good times and bad.
You know, and it's the same with church. There will be difficult times, there will be people who annoy you. There will be people who maybe you'll fall out with. We need to get a sense of perspective. That commitment to a church means seeing through difficulties, and that means being committed to working through difficulties and differences. And you know, what we see is there was a real and genuine sense in which the old Testa, the New Testament church, was committed to working through differences and difficulties.
If we look at some of the things that it says that they were committed to, it says to the apostles teaching, they had a lifestyle of learning. They wanted to grow in their knowledge of God and their love for one another, and they knew that that meant learning, understanding, being committed to growing in their knowledge of the truth.
For us, that means being committed to growing in our knowledge and understanding and application of the Bible, but also to grow in our life for one another. They didn't want to just grow their minds, but they wanted to see their lives changed, to be committed to the teaching that they received meant being committed to becoming more loving.
It meant passing on what they knew to others. In two Timothy two, two, it says, you then my strong son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus and the things that you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses. Entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others. In other words, what you have learned together, growing together and pass it on.
They were committed to common teaching. They weren't committed to, uh, their own view of stuff. They were committed to receiving truth, wrestling with it, applying it, and passing on that truth to others. You know, in our, that's one of the challenges we face in the here and now in many of our cultures now, we have a cultural mindset that places ourselves at the center of the narrative.
We rely on ourselves. Everything is about how I feel and what I think about it, and, you know, that's the spirit of our age, but ultimately it's very limiting and it's destructive. You see, that means that we then have to create meaning in and of ourselves.
And the fact is that that's a job that no human being is up to. Our world tells us to, uh, get the best for ourselves. That it's all about our truth and and, and what we think that matters. But actually, there's something about being part of a community of faith and connecting to the historic teaching of the Christian Church that's bigger than me. It's not just about me and what I think, but I connect to something bigger and I want to encourage you, be devoted to relationships.
Find connection with. Be devoted to fellowship, sharing your heart, knowing others and being known. Be devoted to growing in your understanding of the Bible. Knowing who Jesus is, not simply because of my opinions of him, but because of the truth of the Bible.
Be committed to an outward looking and growing group of people who want to become more like Jesus. We see in that early church in this passage in act, the sense of generosity, the sense of community, the the sense of growth. It says they kept feeling a sense of awe.
Why? Because God is real and. He's doing great things. So I want to encourage you, whoever you are, wherever you are, as you watch this today, think about what does it mean for you to be a part of a local church where you know others and others know you.
Matt: Coming up, we have Conversation. Street, but before we get into that, here's a clip from our podcast. What's the story which you can subscribe to on all your favorite podcast apps?
Al Marshall: Cuz I think this guy's, certainly within Western society, I think we're supposed to have the answer and that is my feeling sometimes that I'm supposed to have the answer.
I'm supposed to figure it out and sometimes I actually can't. Yeah. And being honest and vulnerable enough to be able to say, I'm struggling with this. Or this is how I'm feeling at the moment, with something that I felt very early on that was important to actually to try and liberate male society to
Matt: So welcome back to, uh, Conversation Street. We've got a lot to talk about. Dave. that was, uh, Tony's talk and then we've just had al's little snippet and intro there for what's the story. If you are, uh, not already subscribed to what's the story, you can find out more information of whatsthestorypodcast.com, where you'll also find Al's, um, uh, episode on there If you wanna listen to Al, which was just brilliant actually.
You were on. what the story as well, weren't you dave?
Dave: I was a little while ago. It was fantastic. I think we had a whole evening recording it.
Matt: it. was great. I loved it. It's just really, fa I love what's the story cuz you get in and you find out, I mean, the, the clues and the tire You get sticking into people's story and hear what you know, hear what makes 'em tick, hear what led them to Christ and all that sort of stuff, which was great. So yeah, you can check out Dave's story. You can check out Al's story. whatsthestorypodcast.com. I think the link is in the YouTube comments.
Looking at the comments on my screen now. Tony's talk. Let's get into that and I, I'm sorry. uh, I've got to address the seven elephants in the room in the sense that Tony, Did this, uh, talk, I th I recorded it last week, um, before his 50th birthday.
Uh, so the talks aren't live. I mean, you would've figured that out. And he did this talk and he sent it in. And in his talk, he talks about how it's not been easy to support Liverpool Football Club this season. Uh, literally as the final whistle is blown, uh, in what can only be described as probably one of the best victories Liverpool has had for a long time. Uh, and I just need to get that outta the way.
We don't need to talk about it uh, There's seven reasons why we don't need to talk about it. Uh, but, um, I I just thought I would, I would move on from that. So, um, yeah, we've got that outta the way. Anyway, chief, what did you think to, uh, Tony's talk?
Dave: I thought, I thought he was, I thought he did exceptionally well with that talk because he's a preacher and Acts two you could preach forever,
So, um, I thought, I, I thought his points were really good. Um, yeah, I just thought he did a really good job and his, he focused in on three points and I, yeah. Lots for, us to talk about Matt lots to take notes about. watch it
Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Watch it again. It's really interesting, isn't it that, um, I'm gonna bring up the, uh, slide here. Cause I, I think it was this one. Let me, yeah. They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching. So this is what happened in the early church, right? They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to Prayer. And it goes on to talk about a few other things that they did as well.
So, uh, they were together, they had everything in common, all stuff that Tony talked about. They continued to meet together, both in the temple courts and in each other's homes. They ate together, they praised God together, and the favor of God seemed to be rampant and people were getting saved.
So these were the verses that sort of, the talk was based on and it's amazing in a lot of ways, chief, how simple that sounds. Do you know, what I mean and, and how, how it feels like We've kind of overcomplicated church a little bit.
Dave: well, the second word in was devoted themselves and it goes to the apostles teaching.
And Tony talked about how we live in a very indi individualistic society. And, um, I could see that if, you know, if that was written in artex today, you know, most of us want to be devoted to our own teaching,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Dave: You know, well
Matt: really, yeah.
Dave: they're just men like me Um, they serve the same God. They Do, you know what I mean? It's all about getting over I'm good as anybody else.
Matt: Hmm.
Dave: But you know, to me that speaks of humility.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: They, um, they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching. And that takes humility. You humble yourself. You see something of God in a person, and you humble yourself to them.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: And god, God's always attracted to people who are humble.
Matt: Yeah. No, I love that. Div. I, I I i, I love that phrase you came up with, cuz if we, if you are right, if we'd written this today, it would say we were devoted to our own teaching, to our own Theology to our own way of interpreting life to our own truth.
Maybe, uh, would be a, a a way to say that. Why do you think that is? Why do you think we've gone down that road so far? That that's what we would've said? That, you know, and I, I totally agree with you that actually, that's probably
Dave: some of it is Western. I think some of it is the Western culture.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Dave: You know, and some of it is just, man,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Dave: you know, um, there, there's just something, you know, Jesus talks much about humility.
Matt: Mm.
Dave: know, it, it's such an attractive quality, you know, and how he responds to it and when, and, um, and Jesus, when, when Jesus says people humbling themselves as he responds. Another word that Tony used. transformation takes place.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: You know, and, and just slightly diversion, like, you know, I think of Zacchaeus, know, hanging from tree. Hated by the Jews, hated by the Russian occupying army, who he was working for, you know, and Jesus walks underneath, tree, looks up and calls him by name.
The Crowd hates him and say, don't go to his house for say, And the, and the, and you know, and the disciples are thinking, could you not pick anybody worse to go to, you know, It's a value system thing, Matt, I think. Um, yeah. And you know, when it talks about what, what, you know, those five areas, you know, it would be, we're not talking about style of devotion or style of Prayer or style of teaching. It's just being humble To sit down and listen.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: And weigh the scriptures.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: For me, that's why it's about, you know, sitting under their ministry and receiving from them humbly and weighing what people have to say and what they model.
Matt: Yeah. I think it's a really interesting point, isn't it? That, um, a lot of people at the moment who are going through this whole faith deconstruction thing and, um, you know, that it, it fundamentally starts with it.
I was talking to a guy, uh, on Friday about this. You know, the, the fundamental question all comes down to scripture. Is the Bible just a really interesting book of ancient text, or is it actually the word of God that we have to submit ourselves to?
And this becomes a really interesting question, isn't it? That you've, you have to sort of think where, where it, how do I, how do I perceive the Bible? Because I can, I can deconstruct my faith, I can live my own truth, but that means this fundamental.
change, doesn't it? Where you go from, well, this is, this is what the Bible says, but I don't care because it's not really the sovereign word of God. Or if it is, I, I still don't care. It's, it's kind of like my, it doesn't bother me. I'm, I'm still doing what I do. And that's kind of living life without this humility that you're talking about, right?
Dave: Yeah. But there's a thing as well that you'll hear people say, and I think I've said it in one of my talks, um, that I've done in my Crowd, and it's, you know, people will say openly to you, they will start a conversation and you know, you're listening to them and they will say, but this is my opinion.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: You know, and you know, I quite often find myself saying, i, you know, I appreciate that. but your opinion is not in line with what the word of God says. And it's a, there's a thing here. you know, your opinions. Um, listen, god's not gonna change the word of God. To fit our circumstances or our opinions.
Matt: That's very true.
Dave: We are, we are the ones to align our lives and our thinking, you know, to that. It's never been popular to be a Christian.
Matt: No.
Dave: never been popular to follow Christ. Even in the first century church, when they called the early church Christians, it wasn't a positive thing. It was a slight on them to call them christians, you know? So,
um, I, I love this, I love the same portion of scripture, of this early church. And if, and if we really believe it and if we applied it, I, I'm sorry, I'm I, what, what, what, what would we see in church? What we do need to go on and read further, what happened? you
Matt: I do wanna, I do wanna get to this question, you know, if what would happen. the modern church in the West did this simplest, the simple idea of devote themselves to the apostle teaching fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to Prayer.
And one of the things that's really intrigued me, we're talking about this a little bit before we hit the re hit the Go live button, what's been going off in, um, on the Asbury University campus. outpouring of the Holy spirit.
Um, so for those of you who don't know, I think it was the 8th of February, um, it just, there's this spontaneous sort of Prayer meeting erupted and just kept going for weeks at Asbury. Thousands of people came into this, like 3000 people that live in the town, but hundreds of thousands of people probably sort of descended on the town within a few weeks.
And it seemed like God was doing something there. And, and I was listening to Pete Greg talk. and, um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm a big fan of pete, Greg, so I was really keen to hear what he had to say about it. And he said, he said some things which just really intrigued me. He said, um, that it was very gentle. It was very lo-fi.
There was zero production value. There were no words on a screen, there was no hype. It didn't happen at a large church with a celebrity pastor. Um, he said it was led by the Gen Z guys, you know, led by the students. Everything that Gen X and Gen Y thinks is necessary to gather a Crowd was not happening.
Um, it was breaking all the rules, which I really quite liked. And he said, and he said, when you got there, he said it was a guy with a guitar just doing worship. Very low fi. Very simple. And he said, but there was this overwhelming sense of peace for a generation experiencing unprecedented anxiety.
And in fact, there was a, a student called Zeke, a student, he said the peace that was in this room was unexplainable. There was a sense of belonging, um, for a generation experiencing the epidemic of loneliness. There was humble leadership for a generation sick and tired of narcissistic leaders, and there was participatory adoration.
He said there was just a piano and a guitar for a generation consumed by digital distraction. And he, and he talked about the simplicity of what was going on at Asbury um, university. And I couldn't help but think of these scriptures.
Dave: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, Matt, lots of people, if you watching, if you, if you're reading social media, et cetera, everybody's gotta comment on it. you know, with this good, bad, or indifference. And, um,
I've been asked by several people what I think about it. And, um, . You know, some people is it real revival? Is it blah, blah, blah? And I'm like, well, you know, define revival. You know, define, you know, awakening. It really doesn't matter because they're not saying it's anything.
They're just saying they are meeting with God. and it is evident they are meeting with God and for how long this goes on. You know? I don't think that they're even thinking about that.
They're just experiencing something that is real for them. They're not really inviting people to it even, you know, they're just like, this is, we're just getting on with our life and God is doing something in this season, the BU talks about season, sorry, of refreshing, times, of refreshing, um, times of renewal. And I think that's what this is.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: You know, I think it is very special. I think it will is something that is possibly healing something within that generation of people that is significantly wounded then.
You know, and you know, people said, well what about this? And what about that? What about it? Because whatever Jesus was, he chose to use men and women. who would make mistakes.
So I think if you wanted to critique, you know, the disciples when they were following Jesus, I think, you know, you'd have to get an extension on your pad because they just ordinary men and women, and Jesus knew that.
So I'm like, God bless these guys, you know? And for as long as God is doing it, giving all the glory, and that's what they're doing.
Matt: Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And there's reports now of a lot of churches uh, and, well, this university campuses doing the same things Gen Z real simple, heart of worship, A lot of what we would call repentance in church, which is just basically acknowledging, um, your own sin, your own mistakes where you fall short and just go, God, I've not measured up um, help me, help me deal with this.
Like Tony said, it's about getting transformed, you know? Um, It's that whole transformation, isn't it? And the simplicity of just communion together praying together without all the pomp, without all the ceremony, which the British are brilliant at because we like our pomp. and regalia. Um, but without all of that and the simplicity of it, and God seems to be doing something, and I,
and there's actually, when you hear people talk about it, um, I, I don't wanna be skeptical. I'd rather be gullible than skeptical when it comes to the
Dave: Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: if I'm honest with And, um, I was like, it just sounds lovely. Do, you know what I mean? and this, and this is what again, I get from these sort of scriptures, isn't it? Uh, they were devoted themselves to the teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to Prayer.
Um, they sold property to give to anybody that had in need. Um, they weren't materialistic. Every day they continue to meet in the temple courts or a church, big church building, they broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts. I'm like,
I, I mean, I'm, I'm, I love our church because I'm part of a community that does do that. You know, people around our house all the time, we're always eating together with glad and sincere
Dave: Hmm.
Matt: But I know a lot of churches where actually, that doesn't happen. And church has become quite individualistic in a lot of ways. I dunno if you've seen this
Dave: Consumeristic, I say.
Matt: Okay.
Dave: Um, and I, I think that is because, you know, people, lots of. and and these are big statements by me, you know, they're very broad now. Lots of people when they go to church, you know, they may have watched Pop Idol, not Pop Idol, idol, whatever on the tv, you know, so when, when, or, or they watch something on YouTube.
So when they go, they quite often, you know, type Fred playing his banjo or his hug ukulele or his guitar, you know, it, it, it doesn't fit that consumer side of them. you know? it, it needs, you know, they used to go into big concerts with lights and smoke and blah, blah, blah. and it, and if that gets you to where you're going in worship, then that's fine.
But I think there's something within people that they, they're exposed to such a high level of performance through media though, even when they go to church, you know, we, like you used the word, I think Tony used the word, or you used the word like celebrity pastor. you know? well, you know, you can't make yourself a celebrity.
Matt: That's true.
Dave: Somebody has to make it a celebrity, you know, and I think we have expectations of. or church staff, whether worship people or pastors or whatever, you know. And, um, I'm all for keeping church simple.
Matt: Mm-hmm. ,
Dave: uh, I've been being in church for a long time. I, um, you know, would look back and definitely say I would do things differently. Not necessarily because it was wrong, just because hopefully I'm a little bit wiser , you know?
Um, but you know, Matt just come back to you, you know, the point about, um, you know, tho those elements. Um, i, I recently have been talking with a whole range of people who've just been on the phone to me from different places saying they, we just sense god saying this to us.
What do you think? And it was quite amazing that, um, and it was simply this about meeting in their homes, stuff we've been doing for years, eating with their
Matt: yep.
Dave: know, I mean, they're friends and family, you know, don't write off your friends and family, you know, that's who they did this with. People that are on the journey with, and you can extend your table and bring in the visitor, you know, the neighbor or the person who's traveling through.
And, um, i, I, I have to say that this um, couple rang me and said, look, they thought God was saying to them to gather just a few friends for an evening of prayer and praise.
And um, I got there and there was five of us in the room. I didn't realize they didn't have any friends, . And um, and it was amazing cuz two the people were there. I immediately thought, oh, interesting. And, um, or needy. And this the person who had organized this, the lady herself as stage four cancer.
Matt: Wow.
Dave: And you know what we started, I thought this could, I don't know what's gonna happen here, God. And we started to worship. and the appropriate position was on your knees and it was sweet. It was sweet.
And nobody, this lady who's in significant need, nobody said, you need to be prayed for healing. She didn't get healed as far as I know.
Matt: Mm-hmm. ,
Dave: but you know, just the evening in the presence jesus. worshipping him, fellowshipping together just by being together. you know, being that, um, scripture talked about one accord. We were in one accord just to go on worshipping. There was no speaker.
Matt: Mm-hmm. ,
Dave: you know, and, um, I think somebody prayed. I think one person prayed twice in the whole evening but there was just this sweet worship. The lady's a wonderful worship leader.
Matt: Hmm.
Dave: We had, we had TV on, YouTube on, and worship on youTube.
Matt: Well,
Dave: It was immense. And, um, that is happening in that type of thing is happening in numerous places. This is, I would say, pray what's happening in kentucky.
So God is staring something and, you know, God, God doesn't matter. Must produce things. He does things that are unique, but hold the fundamental values, you know, there shouldn't be anything complex. We should be able to come together and eat and fellowship. and worship God and pray together.
Matt: Mm.
Dave: Um, I mean, this morning I was in a ch in, in a little church in somebody's home.
Matt: Fantastic.
Dave: people. And it was, um, it was rough but wonderful.
Matt: Mm-hmm. ,
Dave: you know, it was quite a, a new church. And, you know, some people like, you know, in the process of being transformed, like all of us and I loved it. you know, there was not a flashing and flashing lighting. If there was, it was cause somebody was on a switch. Um,
Matt: Mm,
Dave: it was all about the presence of Jesus.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: And we worshiped together. and we fellowshiped together and we prayed and there was nothing attractional in the natural sense, but it certainly attracted the Holy Spirit.
Matt: Yeah. God was there, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Dave: know, and I'm not dismissing the bigger gatherings, I'm not dismissing that cuz they met in the temple courts, which are a good size by the way.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. They are.
Dave: As well as sent home to home, you know, so, um,
Matt: there's a place for both, isn't there? There's a place which says you, You, you, you do need both. And I think, um, I think for the last 10, 15 years it feels like we've gone down this road to say, that says to gather a Crowd, I have to have you know, a stage with beautiful lighting
Dave: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Six different worship leaders on stage, all of which, you know, are very beautiful people. and it's not true. Um, At all. And I think for some people that works, you know, like you say. But actually my, if I look back over my Christian life, the transformative experiences have usually been around breaking bread at somebody's house or eating a meal at somebody's house and we prayed or something has happened, you know, .
Dave: Yeah.
Matt: And, um, and you can't often, you can't often explain it either. So I remember when I was a student, I'd be around your house all the time and Julie would bake this pear and white chocolate cake. every time I was in. It was just still my favorite cake now And my daughter makes it,
Dave: We don't get it.
Matt: you should talk to your and uh I think Zoe got the recipe off Julie and she still cooks it now. but just something simple like that, like just inviting people around and just doing life together. is, is a beautiful thing, isn't it, about the church community and I, I think we can learn a lot from the simplicity. of it.
And One of the things that I'm hoping, actually, just to preempt you dear crowd Church watcher, um, is one of the things I think we should, uh, as Crowd, Church start doing is actually when you are watching the livestream, um, is to obviously to join in with the comments, watch a livestream, but I think it's just good.
Invite one or two people round to watch it with you. And have church in the house with some friends who may be, church may not, may not be church people that you invite round, but it's, it should be fairly straightforward to do. And I, I'm really curious if we did
Dave: Yeah,
Matt: where we, we sort of devote ourselves to one another a little bit like this break bread Prayer have glad, hearts, et cetera. I wonder what would happen, you know,
Dave: But also, Matt, you know that sometimes, you know, um, we're in a position where we might be with two or three people and we mightn't feel confident enough to be able to open the word up.
Well, you know, folks could join you here, that Crowd and, you know, you have some great speakers and, um, some great topics, you know, and, and so they're not dependent on supplying the words, you know, you are supplying afbo them.
And then afterwards, you know, as, as, you go off it, folks can sit around coffee and say, you know, well what was God saying to you?
Because in the teaching we, we have got used to hearing somebody teach we're, we're this morning as I was preaching, I said, if you got any questions, stop me as I'm speaking.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: And they did
Matt: Fantastic.
Dave: great.
Matt: That's awesome. Yeah.
Dave: communi that this is the way we know that people are getting us. And, and so what, you might get through all your material, but you are able to sow something that is real but might, you know, go about something you said before?
Uh, but you know, you know, if we go back in, in time when you guys used to come around to our home, we grew church by, on a Sunday by inviting a stack of people around a dozen or 14 people for lunch. and we got to know your stories and a little bit about you. And for many of those people, you know, we still have that relationship even though we're not seeing them all the time.
you know, they may be in different nations even now, but we, um, but it wasn't just a case for coming for food. We got to know your story. You got to know a little bit about us that we're not just somebody who stands up, up front at the front and says stuff.
but you got to see us with our families. You, you got to see the reality of where and lifestyle matching, and I know that's what you guys are doing now and, and that's why it's important, you know, Tony talked about belonging. You know, I, I I love the word connecting. You know, we connect with each other. We, We, we journey, I love to journey with people.
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: You, you get to know people. You go through the good times. That and, and the challenging time, like in our small group. we were in a small group for many years together, weren't We And all those, all those men, We went three times for praying for wives. Um, for children, and, and we know that, you know, during that time, um, we had to deal with bereavements,
Matt: Yep.
Dave: You know, and marriage challenges and a whole variety of things, but we were able to journey together and support each other. This is what the acts church is about. This is what authentic church, it's not a program.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Dave: And I think that's what in the west we've done creative programs,
Matt: Yeah.
Dave: Do the abc and that might be Okay. it Doesn't work for me. Let's journey together.
Matt: Yeah. I'm with you. That's what's transformational. And that's why I still think the church is the hope of the world.
And that's why I'm still a big believer on it. Um, Whether it's like this online, whether it's you with a few people in your home, whether it's in the big temple courts, whatever. I, I still think church is is amazing. Well, thanks for that, Dave. I, I, it's amazing how quickly time goes cuz I've got like 40,000 questions we could carry on the conversation.
But, um, let me tell you, if you are connecting with us here at Crowd, uh, you are welcome here. Uh, you can belong here on, we have groups, uh, a community group midweek on a Wednesday. If you'd like to join us for that, you'd be more than welcome. Where we catch it, we pray for one another, uh, we do a little bit of life together.
Um, you'd be more than welcome to join us for that as well. Um, uh, we are just trying to do it all online, uh, because, you know, like Tony said, we transform people and, uh, we, I think we've got a great story to tell. Uh, we serve a great savior.
So, um, Feel free to get plugged in, get connected in. Like I say, if you wanna know more, do connect with us on our website, which is coming up on your screen now. www.crowd.church. Or you can reach us on social media at Crowd Church. Uh, and that's true of Instagram, Facebook, and youTube. I think so, yeah. You can reach us on those, um, social media chats. I just have to think it through. , uh, you can reach us on those social media channels. Uh, Dave, what's coming up next week? Do you remember what I said?
Dave: No you are speaking. You are speaking. Is that
Matt: That's correct
Dave: I you are speaking. and the host are Hannah and dan, Orange, what a great pair
Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good.
Dave: And you are good as well,
Matt: But that'll be better. That's fine. I'm okay with that. I'm secure. I'm not leaving that in. Uh, It's great. Uh, so yeah, do make sure you connect with us. Uh, make sure you subscribe to the live stream, uh, on YouTube. You can hit the little bells, uh, notification as well. Get notified when we're live.
Um, but yeah, come join in. Say hi in the comments next week as we are talking about the name of Jesus. Next week is about the guy. If you know the Book of Acts. Um, there's a guy who's sitting at the temple courts and he's lame but lame from birth. And, um, he's begging for money and he instantly gets healed. And so we're gonna look at that. And says, I look, looked, I looked out getting that passage. I'm not gonna lie.
Dave: I know I didn't get it.
Matt: No, we give you all the tricky ones. I get all the easy ones. That's the best way. Sadaf, is it open? So I think obviously she just gives me all the best ones. which is quite. So well done, Sadaf. Uh, so no, brilliant. Well, well done, uh, for joining us. Today's been great to connect with you. Thank you so much. Anything else from you Chief? Any closing words?
Dave: God is really good and he is got a real plan for our lives. Let's go change our nation, our city, and the people in our lives.
Matt: That is a phenomenal word on to end, so thank you so much for joining us. That's it from me. That's it from Dave. God bless you. Bye for now.
Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.
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It has been awesome to connect with you, and you are awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. And hopefully we'll see you next time. That's it from us. God bless you. Bye for now.